Quickies April 21, 2008

The Race for MY Low Cost Machine

Have you ever been sitting at brink of buying a new device and been totally perplexed as to what device to buy? I am sitting at this point.

The ultra low cost machines are the ones that really excite me at this point. You can buy so much power for less than what I paid for many Pocket PC’s and Palms. Never have there been so many choices.

First up is the venerable Eee PC 701. This is the device that set the world on fire for low cost machines. I know Asus says that this isn’t designed to be your only computer and I am definitely not looking for something in that area, however I feel there’s enough power to make this your only device if even for a limited time.

Next, the Eee PC 900. An 8.9 inch screen and 20 gb of flash is nothing to sneeze at. I am not even looking at the Windows version of this device. The only question is it worth the wait? Is it worth the extra dollars for the Eee 900 when the one based on the Atom may be a better performer?

Third in the race and currently in the lead is the HP 2133 MiniNote, specifically the $549 or $499 version. The $549 one comes with 120 GB of a real laptop hard disk. The $499 version has 4 GB of flash. Both have a SDHC slot for adding storage. Both have USB to further expand it. Both have very sexy form factors and both ship with SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop version 10. While not my first choice in Linux, it’s an acceptable one.

Lastly there’s the very portable N810. The N810 can do almost anything the first 3 do. The only thing I see that it can do that the others can’t without help is GPS. I really would like a GPS, but I am not sure how much I would use it. I don’t geocache and I rarely go places that aren’t easy enough to navigate on my own. I also know how to use a compass and have a good sense of direction, so getting lost isn’t something that typically happens to me. Plus there is a big downside to this device: it can’t run normal desktop applications. Any application that runs on the N810 must be a Maemo app. While there’s tons of apps, it’s definitely more convenient to download a deb and install it on the other machines.

Are there any I missed?? If so, post which ones! My requirements aren’t set in stone, but here are the loose set of requirements:

Must have wifi.
Keyboard is not required, but nice to have.
Must be a good browsing experience. I need flash to work and I would like to use it for blogging from events.
Web Cam is also not required, but nice to have
If it’s bigger than these, I don’t want it to be much bigger. A 13.3″ laptop is a bit larger than I want for this machine.
MUST be expandable. It can be SDHC or USB. Doesn’t matter.
Must be able to watch video, high def or standard def.
Must be able to play MP3 and OGG.
I want it in the range of $500. Preferably under.

The only hard and fast requirement I have is it MUST run Linux. Maemo is cool. If the device has a Windows license, that’s ok too so long as Linux support is good.

I am looking to purchase in the first week or two of May when I get my Tax Rebate (thank you George Bush.).

Oh and if it’s a device that hasn’t been covered here on Gear Diary, I will be reviewing it. It will be more than a unbox and a 1-2 week use and then write a review. I want to chronicle what is it like using this device over a extended period of time. Can it be used for podcasting? Can I do what I want with it? Will the newness stay? Will I be ebaying it in 6 months because I hate it? I don’t know, but stay here to find out!

Tags: Linux, Music

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About Joel McLaughlin

View all posts by Joel McLaughlin

Joel is a system admin for a local college in Columbus, OH. While he loves Linux and tends to use it more than anything else, he will stoop to running closed source if it is the best tool for the job. His techno passions are Linux, Android, netbooks, GPS, podcasting and Amateur Radio.

http://www.s-consult.com Wayne Schulz

Joel,

Full sized laptops are approaching the price point that you’re describing.

Here’s the one that my GF Jennifer and I picked up a few months back — it’s not a bad deal – I think BB B&B (Bricks & Mortar) has them for $449 — hang out in Fatwallet or Slickdeals as these things are starting to go on sale daily.

I think it’s a 15″ display which I realize is bigger than your requirement.

http://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/06/my-last-bargain-laptop-purchase-back-on-sale-compaq-presario-t2330/
http://www.geardiary.com Mitchell Oke

Well I’d definitely forget about the 4GB 2133, I can’t see any reason to buy it considering for $50 more you get a faster CPU, more RAM and a proper 120GB HDD.

Judie is ordering one of the $549 models for me, I want an ultraportable once the Shift goes back. The Eee just looks like a toy that needs hacking, and for me I’d rather a bit more power so I feel comfortable leaving my MacBook Pro at home.
Noah

Does it have to be a new device?

Shop eBay for a 12″ iBook or PowerBook. I’d recommend getting one with a G4 processor. I have an iBook G4/800 I picked up for $200 over a year ago.
Ahmed

I think one thing you forgot to mention was that the N810 has a touch screen. I’m a new tablet pc user and find the idea of using a touch screen is fantastic. It’s what’s given the iPhone and iPod Touch a lead in their markets. Maybe you could pickup a Fujitsu LifeBook U810 or a P1610 off eBay for the price of one of the above?
Ahmed

http://buypowerelectronics.com/product_info.php?products_id=47

U810 for $592.64
Joel Mclaughlin

Ahmed: The U810 is a nice machine, but touchscreens are notorious for being, well, pain in the butt to get working on Linux. I’ll have to look around and see if anyone has gotten Linux to work on the U810. It may work, but I bet the touch screen won’t never mind about getting a reliable text to speech or inking facility. PLus 592 is a bit more than I wanted to spend.

Noah: I have a 12 inch Powerbook already. One thing: too heavy. This has to fit in my normal laptop bag WITH my normal laptop as well. I am planning on getting the 12 inch fixed at some point and I MIGHT try it in this kind of usage scenario. It would be running Mac OS X in this scenario as running flash on a PPC based Linux machine has been, well, near impossible as is codec support.

Mitchellpowerbook already. One thing: too heavy. This has to fit in my normal : Good point on the 4 GB 2133. Yeah it’s pretty much not in the running, but it would be good enough to use in this case…besides there are ALWAYS hacks abound. They are already using GRUB to boot the Eee off of the SD slot. Can’t see any reason the 4 GB mininote wouldn’t be able to do the same.

Wayne: Excellent point. I have considered this. I seen a nice Presario with a dual core CPU for $429 at Best Buy. The only problem with this is I need something I can take WITH my normal Lenovo T60 that work has provided to me. Not as a replacement. Now if I can find a full sized ultramobile in that price range and it doesn’t way me down too much when combined with my T60 then yes I could definitely go with that.
Travis

I’d opt for the EeePC 900 but not until later in the year when the larger battery will be available as standard. I don’t think the Atom processor will make much difference.
Joel Mclaughlin

Travis: There’s a larger battery one the 900?? Cool. I don’t think I can wait though. History shows if the wife hasn’t bitched too much AND says ok, I better spend it now and NOT wait or the money will be GONE!
Kismet

Mitchell: the Via 1.6ghz C7-M in the HP 2133 is a bit slower than the 900mhz Celeron in the Asus Eee PC.

It’ll be quite a contender if(when) it releases with either Intel’s Atom or Via’s Isaiah chip.

For me, the current HP 2133 is too slow to qualify a purchase; it’s not powerful enough to playback decent quality Divx/Xvid videos without dropping frames.

Joel: If you’re looking for a longer battery life, I would definitely wait for the Atom chips to ship. Speed wise, they’re lackluster, but the watt usage is much lower.
Joel Mclaughlin

Kismet:

Interesting points. However, I am not really in a position to wait. I’d like to get something soon. I just want to make doubly sure I have a backup just in case my current podcast rig has issues. Besides….I want it now. You can ALWAYS wait for something better, but my advice to anyone who wants to get something….get it now. You may regret it, but it’s GOING to happen anyway. Say I get an Atom based unit….in 6 months, another unit will be along that uses another chip or upgrades the graphics or storage. By waiting, I lose out on what is happening now and I have to lug this full sized laptop in places I don’t want to like meetings, the coffee shop when I go for a break from the office or even the grocery store.

Like I said….if you want to buy something just do it. Waiting until X model comes out with X chip isn’t any fun either!
Travis

The 900 is shipping with a 4400 mAh battery. My eeePC 701 came with a 5200 mAh. There are even bigger batteries on ebay. From what I have read the 10400 mAh battery is not up to specs.
Joel Mclaughlin

Travis:

That’s cool. I may end up keeping whatever I get for a while. At least a year maybe 2. So it maybe something I invest in a second battery. The size of the standard battery is fine for all of these, but I could see buying a second for when I go on trips or to see if I can leave the adapter at home.

One of the biggest uses I see for this, for me, is watching video podcasts.

Kismet:

One other thing I haven’t seen is a report of how well h.264 or Xvid plays on SuSE Linux. I think HP is making a BIG MISTAKE by putting Vista on both the Windows versions of the MiniNote and that may end up being what is messing up the video. Vista takes way too many resources for some of the things it does. I can do almost everything Vista does in Compiz.

Although, I am wondering if the card in the mininote even supports Compiz at this point. I think it has the same card that the Artigo PC had that I reviewed a while back. I was unable to get Compiz working on that because driver it was using did not support compositing. It’s possible it does now or HP did some work to get it working in SLED 10. I would hate to have a Linux laptop not run Compiz!
Kismet

Joel: Eee PC 900 on May 12th. =D
Kismet

Joel: I’m really wondering about the video playback on the 2133 running Linux as well. HP seems to have nailed the materials/construction/screen/keyboard/style. Hmm…
Joel Mclaughlin

Kismet:

I know! I just don’t know if the wife will let me go that high! I might have to make the point to her it would only be about an extra hundred to go for the 900 and I get so much more!

Seriously, the base goals here can all be met by, well, by all of them. I just want the most bang for the buck if you know what I mean which is why I am stuck currently. They ALL are good for my main purposes. Even the N810. In fact, the N800 should be in the list too, but I would only go for it if the wife just says that’s as much as I can spend. I think she’s cool with about 400 and maybe even 500 at the very most.

God I wish I was married to a woman who appreciated technology more!
Joel Mclaughlin

Kismet:

It IS very well put together. I would sacrifice playing Xvids on it as it’s not something I would do with regularity. The same with Compiz.
Joel Mclaughlin

Everyone:

I just e-mailed HP about the 2133 MiniNote to see if the have a Educational discount. This may tip the scales more in it’s favor. If I can get a device with a 120 GB hard disk for the same as a 4 Gig model, me thinks you know what I am getting!
http://www.geardiary.com Judie Lipsett

Joel, the 120GB HP makes the most sense IMHO; it’s totally the one I would buy.
Joel Mclaughlin

Judie:

Yeah. We’ll see! I might mention to the wife that I won’t have to buy any extra storage for a while if I get the HP ….ok excep ta external DVD Drive later…. mu hah haahaaaa!

Oh and thanks for the suggestion. This thread has been incredible. Lots of good suggestions. We’ll consider them all except the bigger units. It’s got to be SMALL….but not TOO small.
http://www.geardiary.com Mitchell Oke

I can’t see any reason to buy the 4GB MiniNote, $50 extra for such a massive storage boost (and a few other improvements) is a complete no brainer to me.

Funny you should mention the U810 Ahmed, Fujitsu dropped off a U1010 at my house today which is pretty much identical (has HSDPA built-in, not sure of the other differences yet). At this point I’ll just say the keyboard is REALLY small and requires Fn keys for a lot of things. If you want to type on your ultraportable, I don’t think that is the machine you want.
Joel Mclaughlin

What a CANNED response! HP’s response on whether there’s a academic discount:

Dear Joel,

Thank you for contacting the HP Home & Home Office Sales Center.

I understand you are inquiring whether the HP Home & Home Office Sales Center offers assistance for students and educational institutions. We currently offer an Academic Purchase Program (APP) for students, teachers, and faculty for registered educational institutions across the country. To register for the HP Home & Home Office Sales Center’s Academic Purchase Program (APP), please call us at the number listed below and one of our representatives will be happy to sign you up. You may also visit http://www.hpshopping.com/education to register yourself.

To protect your investment, I also suggest you purchase an extended service plan to upgrade and extend the manufacturer’s warranty straight through HP. There are various options available ranging from one to four years. Also, I’d like to sign you up for our exclusive ‘My Print Rewards’ program. You get exclusive offers right away on HP ink and paper and after just 3 qualifying orders, you can save up to 15%. As always, you get free next day shipping to your door on all HP original supplies.

Please reply to this message or for online Chat assistance please visit – http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/help.do if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP Home & Home Office Sales Center directly at 1-888-999-4747 between 7:00 AM – 2:00 AM EST, 7 days a week. Our HP Home & Home Office representatives are trained professionals who can help you decide on the right HP product for you.

Lastly, if you are interested in hearing about new product offerings, promotions and special discounts, simply reply to this email and I will be pleased to sign you up for our award winning e-newsletter. Providing us with your full mailing address will also allow you to receive our catalog, which is issued several times annually.

Thank you for your interest in the HP Home and Home Office Store, we value your business and support. Our goal is to continue bringing you quality products and solutions.

Best regards,

Terry

Now WHERE in that did it answer my simple question: Is there a education discount for the 2133 MiniNote for people eligible for them? For those who don’t know, I work for a college and therefore can get those discounts. I am replying to them.
http://www.papergraffiti.com Jessica

The HP Mini-Note looks really nice…I like the form factor a lot! But, I don’t like the price and don’t really feel like it gives me more than my eeePC does. I have the 701 and I love it. The $399 price point was killer, and I didn’t feel like waiting for a better model to come out, either!! I’m like you–I want to buy something when I have the money for it and not wait around because then that money will get spent on something else!

It may look like a toy, but my eeePC is the most efficient little machine I’ve ever owned. It runs Ubuntu like a dream and I take it with me everywhere. It is even replacing some of my Pocket PC/smartphone tasks completely to the point where I won’t feel like I am giving up features when I purchase an iPhone!
Lui-g

Have a look at the MSI Wind – looks like a polished EEE PC.
At this point, I would wait until the end of June/July.

The Intel Atom processor is destined for a large number of devices. You never know, even Apple might launch something in June!

I’m going to wait until the dust settles. There’s too many new products on the horizon, most of which are slated for June.

If you need something now, get an EEE 701 (2nd hand) and sell it on when you buy in the Summer. Ath least you’ll then know more about the EEE ethos, and you’ll know if you want the 8.9″ model or not.

Have you heard about the 10″ EEE ?… it never ends.
Joel Mclaughlin

Lui-g:

The MSI looks sweet, but I don’t really want to wait. Money’s burning a hole in my pocket!

Also, what’s to say I can’t sell the MiniNote or whatever I get on eBay and get the Atom based one then!
Ahmed

Mitchell, I saw the pic – and even recognised the Fujitsu! Waiting for the review already

I bought an Asus 701 (4G) for my wife to take to school with her (teacher not student) and apart from OOo not supporting word documents properly her only other complaint has been the screen size. I’d buy the 900 if it was available. Pitty about the Via processor in the HP, the screen/keyboard combination looks like a winner.

Joel, Vista Business can be down-graded to XP (requires a phone call to MS) but this way HP give you a choice. You can’t activate Vista first though.

Personally I wan’t a Asus 900 sized machine with a touch sreen in either twist or slide form factor. The Nokia N810 would be a good fit for me, screen might be a bit small but at least you can scroll web pages easily using the touch screen. Anyone tried Inking on it? I’d like to replace the trusty old notepad but my Toshiba M400 is usually hooked up to a monitor and keyboard..
Joel Mclaughlin

Jessica:

Mini-Note is in the running and currently leading if I can get spousal approval. I like the idea of a bigger hard disk. Let’s me do a bit more than the flash only units.

I would take an Eee though! I can ALWAYS add a SDHC or a external USB drive.
Pam T.

I have the 1.6Ghz 120GB HDD HP Mini running Vista Business. Right now I give it a B+ in performance and usablility. The extended battery ruins the sleek lines, but whatcha going to do? You need the battery life. I can Slingbox reasonably well (but NOT if I go to full screen – too choppy) and video that I rip myself for the iPod (15fps) plays very well. Those speakers are awesome. Vista doesn’t run badly – I’m still getting used to it and would prefer XP.

My minus? The screen size at the highest resolution is hard on older eyes. It takes work to adjust from a 15″ monitor to a 8.9″ one and changing the resolution produces odd shading and darker pixels on some characters. I’m learning to adapt though. And I’m unable to create a Bluetooth PAN with my Blackjack, which is likely a driver issue.

Hope this helps.
Joel Mclaughlin

One machine I forgot to mention when writing the posts is the Everex Cloudbook. I am exploring it for a bit this afternoon. Brighthand didn’t think much of it:

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13839

I just want to see what people have done with it or if hey have tried the new spaces version of gOS which looks alot like Leopard.
Joel McLaughlin

Cloudbook is definitely out. Actually, I think I may be ordering SOON! Like tomorrow. Just waiting for the OK from the wife. She hasn’t given me a dollar figure yet. So far, the running goes:

1. Eee PC 701 4G surf (no web cam) $350.00 (may let me get a SD card too)
2. Eee PC 701 4G $399.99 (still may do a SD)
3. Mini Note $549

One thing I may do to push it more towards the mini note is the storage. I might point out to her: I am GOING to need storage on the Eee and thus spend more money. Period. I have a 1 GB SD card, but that’s not enough. A 16 GB SDHC can be had for 60 bucks. DIRT cheap.

On the other hand, I need that sound interface to (Behringer UCA-202). So, I may end up with a Eee Anyway. I can always live with it until I pick up a External USB drive and then I would be OK.

Stay tuned for a new post as I will need help assigning a name.